discussion

Discussion

Feedback, questions, answers and discussion are welcome particularly regarding (but by no means restricted to) the following:

Feedback

Good communications helps clear up misunderstandings. E-mails or regular letters that have to do with private personal matters, will remain confidential. Cannot 100 % guarantee a response to all mail. However, will make an attempt to address serious concerns and clear up misunderstandings.

Have received very little feedback from readers. I do get a steady regular traffic to my writings on spiritual matters, but very little actual mail or feedback so far. I have done almost no advertising so far (but hope to change this if somehow I can find the time), but there are people who are interested in spite of the fact I have no human organization supporting me so far and do almost no advertising so far and this is being written on Feb. 28, 2009.

The number of hits are not great (like in the many thousands), but there are hits (scores of hits on a regular basis). My most popular sites on spiritual matters as of Feb. 28, 2009 are Games at 1,780 - then Signs of Christ's Return at 1,400 - then The Church at 750 and then it goes on down the list. My most popular web site overall is the one on Weeds at around 7,300 hits at the end of Feb. 2009.

I will not mention specific names of those who have given feedback at this time, but may do so in the future. I will not go out of my way to try and run down or embarrass or attack my critics personally on my web sites - unless the attacks happen to be something really extreme. And I will usually contact you and ask for your permission to use your name on my site. However, I cannot give readers a blanket commitment and promise to not bring up their names - this is done to take into account unusual circumstances. There are always exceptions, so I have to remain flexible. This is done not to discourage feedback, but done so I do not paint myself into a corner, and make commitments and promises I cannot keep.

About half of the responses from readers has been positive and about half negative. Half of the respondents praise me, and the other half condemn me.

I want to now try and clear up some things brought up by readers.

Herbert W Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God

Some readers seem to be associating me with H.W. Armstrong and the old Worldwide Church of God.

I do not get my teachings from HW Armstrong or the old or new WWCOG - instead I get them from the Bible (the most accurate English translations I have come across are the Authorized King James Version and the New King James Version). If Armstrong, or the WWCOG or the Pope or Mohammed agree with what the Bible teaches then I will agree with them. If they don't then I will not go with them.

I do not have a monopoly on the truth. You have a mind, and your mind can taste the truth, if you are only willing to see it.

I was baptized by a Minister in the WWCOG, but the one who really did the baptism was Jesus Christ - in the spirit of course.

I was only with the WWCOG for about 4 to 5 years as a baptized member from around 1978 to 1982 or 1983. I was then disfellowshipped. You can read the sad story by going to My Experience with the Worldwide Church of God. I was officially reinstated as a member in good standing back in 1990 I think, but have only been to one Sabbath Service since, and have really no desire to return. Besides they have changed too many teachings - so now I would have too many things to disagree with them.

Here is a short list of some of their major doctrinal changes, which I do not approve of, and which were not doctrines of the WWCOG back in 1978 to 1982.

They now teach the Trinity doctrine, when before they taught the truth, which is that the Holy Spirit is simply the life and nature of God, and not a third person in a Holy Trinity.
They now teach that we are saved by grace alone through faith, and there is no need to prove your faith through your works. So they now teach the same dead faith that so-called mainstream Christianity teaches. The truth is that we are indeed saved by grace through faith in Christ - God's free gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, but we also need to prove our faith through our works, and we need a living faith. We need to work out our salvation and produce fruits for God. We need to work at it - we need to have a repentant attitude, and we need to obey God's commandments - the ones still in effect (but here are gray areas of the law subject to individual interpretation) . The WWCOG has gone completely off the track here, and is teaching the same dead faith so many other professing Christian churches teach. This is a colossal error.
They now teach that women can be ministers in the church - when the New Testament teachings clearly forbid women that role in the true church.
They now teach that we no longer have to observe the weekly Sabbath (the true Sabbath from Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and we no longer need to worry or even concern ourselves about honouring God by observing the Annual Holy Days mentioned in Leviticus 23.
They now teach we are born again when converted and baptized. The truth is that true Christians will be born again at the resurrection into spirit beings, and we are only begotten children of God when baptized and we need to grow up spiritually and overcome our sins, and evil natures through faith, and we need to follow the new nature the Holy Spirit and become more and more like God.
They now teach that God is not a family, and that God is not reproducing Himself or having children. The truth is that the God's are having a family, and we can be born into that family at the resurrection. We will not be Gods as such (there are only two members of the true Godhead - God the Father, and God the Son) we will be the children of God and see God as He is, and we will be part of that family of God. However, we will never be Gods as such- since we are all created beings.
They have de-emphasized the importance of prophecy - when prophecy is very important and is an integral part of the gospel. They also seem to reject divine healing, when healing was so much a part of the original gospel message by Christ and the Twelve Apostles.

There have been more changes , and actually a few were changes for the better, but most were a descent into error.

I was kicked out for no legitimate reason - treated just like junk by the leadership in Edmonton North Church, and by the Canadian Head Office in Vancouver. The main difference I had with them back then was that I refused to accept their teaching that they were the only true church on earth. This was just honesty on my part. I never ever said to them that they were not part of the true church, or even part of the only true church. I simply could not legitimately and honesty say with 100 % conviction that they were indeed God's only true church on earth - because there was no way I could prove or verify their claim. I knew that there were some in the WWCOG back then that did have God's Holy Spirit dwelling in them, but I never knew how many naturally. And I did not know if there were or were not true spirit lead Christians in other professing Christian denominations. So I kept quoting to them the Biblical definition of a true Christian, which is that the true Christian is someone with the Holy Spirit living in them.

Romans 8:9 " But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, If so be the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His."

Today in 2009 they now teach that they are not the only exclusive body of Christ. In 1982 they taught they were the only true church on earth. Big changes in doctrine - eh ? Some for the good, but most for the bad. What on earth has happened to God's Church ?

I know God's spirit lives in me, and I am part of the true church. But I haven't a clue as to how many other true Christians there are out there. God knows that stuff - not little old me.

More will be added to Discussion Page when time permits. There is a lot more coming folks - keep in tune.

Mailing Address: Ray Wegner P.O. Box 475 Stn. Main Calgary, Alberta T2P-2J1

Telephone (403) 274-5253 E-mail

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Readers are encouraged to point out biblical errors in all of my material and writings on spiritual matters. If you can find scriptural errors in my teachings that cannot be backed up by hard, concrete biblical teachings and doctrine - then I will gladly accept the constructive criticism and make the changes needed. So please go ahead and point out my mistakes, but your criticism must not be based on mere opinion, but must be able to be proved from the Bible.

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